Comments on: MP3 Bitrates compared http://www.larsen-b.com/Article/273.html Titanium Exposé Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:50:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Igor M Podlesny http://www.larsen-b.com/Article/273.html#comment-6676 Igor M Podlesny Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:38:56 +0000 #comment-6676 «… I’m not sure how looking at spectograms is useful for such a debate. The object of perceptual coding is not to produce something that looks the same on a spectrogram as the original — but which sounds the same. …» Well, if spectogram is different, then we know that sound wasn't properly encoded, therefore it couldn't have been properly played. At other side, spectrogram likeness is required but not sufficient. «… I’m not sure how looking at spectograms is useful for such a debate. The object of perceptual coding is not to produce something that looks the same on a spectrogram as the original — but which sounds the same. …»

Well, if spectogram is different, then we know that sound wasn’t properly encoded, therefore it couldn’t have been properly played.

At other side, spectrogram likeness is required but not sufficient.

]]> By: Drill http://www.larsen-b.com/Article/273.html#comment-406 Drill Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-406 <p>The spike at 19Khz is the stereo pilot tone. It should go away if you switch to mono, but you will obviously lose the stereo sound!</p> The spike at 19Khz is the stereo pilot tone. It should go away if you switch to mono, but you will obviously lose the stereo sound!

]]> By: Jkx http://www.larsen-b.com/Article/273.html#comment-407 Jkx Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-407 <p>Yes, that's right. I spend a little time on this, wondering what it is, mainly cause I found some screenshot on the net.. saying that FM is "pure" until 21Khz .. but I found this: <a class="reference" href="http://tinyurl.com/25mddu">http://tinyurl.com/25mddu</a>. So the 19Khz spark is normal :)</p> <p>Bye</p> Yes, that’s right. I spend a little time on this, wondering what it is, mainly cause I found some screenshot on the net.. saying that FM is "pure" until 21Khz .. but I found this: http://tinyurl.com/25mddu. So the 19Khz spark is normal :)

Bye

]]> By: Charl http://www.larsen-b.com/Article/273.html#comment-408 Charl Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-408 <p>When you say "we clearly see mp3 encoder uses an expander" -- how is this clear?</p> <p>Regarding the "content" above 16kHz -- whether your stereo can reproduce this or not isn't really that relevant. Say there is actual content there, at the -60dB level in these frequencies it is likely inaudible. (Considering that the median threshold of hearing at 1kHz is about 2dB SPL, at 4kHz about -5, and at 15kHz its about 26dB SPL).</p> <p>But in any case, FM requires +- 4kHz guard band around 19kHz. The "content" you are seeing there is probably an artifact of how the spectrogram is calculated, rather than actual content -- given that the time windowing function leads to "spectral smearing" in the picture.</p> <p>As to Ogg giving better results -- I'm not sure how looking at spectograms is useful for such a debate. The object of perceptual coding is not to produce something that looks the same on a spectrogram as the original -- but which <em>sounds</em> the same. While at the same time you're trying to minimize the number of bits transmitted and the encoding and decoding speed (so out of all these dimensions, there are really many different ways to define "better").</p> <p>If one coding technique discards high-freq inaudible material, and another keeps (or introduces new) high-freq inaudible material, arguably this really means nothing ;)</p> When you say "we clearly see mp3 encoder uses an expander" — how is this clear?

Regarding the "content" above 16kHz — whether your stereo can reproduce this or not isn’t really that relevant. Say there is actual content there, at the -60dB level in these frequencies it is likely inaudible. (Considering that the median threshold of hearing at 1kHz is about 2dB SPL, at 4kHz about -5, and at 15kHz its about 26dB SPL).

But in any case, FM requires +- 4kHz guard band around 19kHz. The "content" you are seeing there is probably an artifact of how the spectrogram is calculated, rather than actual content — given that the time windowing function leads to "spectral smearing" in the picture.

As to Ogg giving better results — I’m not sure how looking at spectograms is useful for such a debate. The object of perceptual coding is not to produce something that looks the same on a spectrogram as the original — but which sounds the same. While at the same time you’re trying to minimize the number of bits transmitted and the encoding and decoding speed (so out of all these dimensions, there are really many different ways to define "better").

If one coding technique discards high-freq inaudible material, and another keeps (or introduces new) high-freq inaudible material, arguably this really means nothing ;)

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